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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andrew hi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Many thanks for doing this – this looks like an excellent basis for moving forward.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>One thing that caught my eye is this opening words, which I hope this group will be able to work on unpacking a bit: “ZIP archive compression is a long-standing, widely-adopted technology described by PKWARE in their ZIP Application Note”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So, breaking this down:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> ZIP archive compression is a long-standing, widely-adopted technology …<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Might it be more correct to call Zip a “family” of technologies since, as we discussed on our last call, many variants are in use at any one time? Granted, it may be a closely related technology family, and may well exhibit a good deal of forwards-compatibility – but for newcomers coming to our work I think it’s important to understand that we’re not talking about “one spec; one implementation” but something a little subtler than that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> … described by PKWARE in their ZIP Application Note<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The PKWare appnote is one description of Zip, a couple of others I can think of are the (derivative) Info-Zip series of app notes; and a further description of Zip is what existing application *<b>do</b>*, and what existing archives *<b>contain</b>* (and, in any contest between the written spec and existing practice, it is probably the case that the latter “wins”). Does anybody know of any other sources of Zip specification?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You mention in particular the Java Zip ecosystem. If we look at:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/jar/package-summary.html">http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/jar/package-summary.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We see that “JAR format is based on the Info-ZIP file format” and from there we can follow a link to the Info-Zip application note 970331 (the link is dead, but I’ve put a live link on the Wiki). Unsurprisingly, this is the very same document which specifies the “Zip” of ISO/IEC 26300 (ODF 1.0). Later versions of the Info-Zip note describe the FOSS “Zip” tools that enjoy very wide use throughout the industry.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So, as I understand it, it is possible to create Zip archives that conform to PKWare’s latest appnote that will not interoperate with tools/archives from (in this example) the Java Zip ecosystem … this is why I think we need to be very careful about asserting that “Zip == PKWare appnote” without qualification – my Zip and your Zip may be different.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Does anybody have information about what the .NET ecosystem expects in its Zips? I imagine C/C++ programmers most usually reach for the Info-Zip libraries when using Zip …<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The other issue here is the mention of “*their* ZIP Application Note” in relation to PKWare. In the Tokyo WG 1 meeting there was quite some interest in the topic of whether/how the Zip specification was in the public domain, and in particular the wording of the press release copied at:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://cd.textfiles.com/pcmedic9310/MAIN/MISC/COMPRESS/ZIP.PRS">http://cd.textfiles.com/pcmedic9310/MAIN/MISC/COMPRESS/ZIP.PRS</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>in which PKWare and Infinity Design Concepts Inc. wrote (rather wonderfully): “[t]he ZIP file format is given freely into the public domain and can be claimed neither legally nor morally by any individual, entity or company (or any other sentient creature in the universe.)” So I also think we need to be careful about asserting ownership of the format – might it be more correct (and neutral) to say that PKWare has played a major role in maintaining and extending a specification of the format?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>- Alex.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> sc34wg1study-bounces@vse.cz [mailto:sc34wg1study-bounces@vse.cz] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andrew Rist<br><b>Sent:</b> 29 October 2010 21:44<br><b>To:</b> ISO Zip<br><b>Subject:</b> [sc34-wg1]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I have taken as my task to list the root problems associated with the use of the ZIP format in document format standards.<br>This task does not involve the suggestion or prescription of any particular solution, and includes the understanding that WG1, SC34, or even ISO may not be the suitable forum to resolve these issues. <br><br>The following is what I have put up on the WG1 wiki, we can develop it further there. Please limit edits to focus on identifying the problem and not to define solutions. (for this section of the wiki, of course)<o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>ZIP archive compression is a long-standing, widely-adopted technology described by PKWARE in their ZIP Application Note. This technology is used for many purposes in the industry, from the archiving and compression of files to packaging of applications (Java jar/ear/war). <br><br>Additionally, in recent years there have been a number of document format standards that use ZIP as a "container file" for storing XML and related resources. For example, OASIS ODF (ISO/IEC 26300), Ecma OOXML (ISO/IEC 29500), IDPF EPUB and W3C Widgets. <br><br>This use of the ZIP Application Note, as an external normative reference, by International Standards or specifications which may be on the track to become International Standards, presents the following problems:<o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>There is no Standards Compatible Reference associated with the .ZIP Application Note.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>There is an ambiguous IPR landscape, especially related to the IPR referenced in the .ZIP Application Note.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>There are technical issues related to the use of ZIP as a document package which are not covered by the .ZIP Application Note<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>ZIP is a ubiquitous and highly interoperable technology, and any standards activity relating to ZIP should not negatively impact the current use of ZIP or its current use in standards.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>As back up to the main problems identified above, here are a set of more specific issues that fall under these categories:<o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>No Standards Compatible Reference <o:p></o:p></li></ul><ul type=disc><ul type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>Current Application Note is not referenceable by International Standards<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>There is no mechanism to reference parts of the Application Note<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>There is ambiguity in terms of the future maintenance of the Application Note (e.g. feedback procedures and transparency)<o:p></o:p></li></ul></ul><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>Ambiguous IPR Landscape<o:p></o:p></li></ul><ul type=disc><ul type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>It is not possible to identify which parts of the Application Note are subject to IP and which are not<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>The use of ZIP in Open Standards (which are implementable in all Open Source) requires any IP used in the standards to be licensed under RF terms. <o:p></o:p></li></ul></ul><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>Technical Issues related to the use of ZIP as a Document Package<o:p></o:p></li></ul><ul type=disc><ul type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>Minimum feature set relevant to all document packaging use of ZIP<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>additional syntax<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>additional objects and metadata<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>signatures and encryption<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>ZIP URL protocol & fragment identifiers<o:p></o:p></li></ul></ul><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>Do No Harm to the Current Usage of ZIP<o:p></o:p></li></ul><ul type=disc><ul type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>Ubiquitous nature of ZIP creates wide reaching benefits (utilities built into all development platforms and OSes)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>Currently in use by wide range of standards<o:p></o:p></li></ul></ul><ul type=disc><ul type=circle><ul type=square><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo2'>ODF, OOXML, EPUB<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo2'>W3C widgets<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo2'>Java (jar, war, ear, java.util.zip)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo2'>XPI <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo2'>ADL-SCORM<o:p></o:p></li></ul></ul></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br><br><br><img border=0 width=114 height=26 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image001.gif@01CB79AD.6C50D150" alt="Oracle Email Signature Logo"><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666'>Andrew Rist | Interoperability Architect<br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red'>Oracle</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666'> Corporate Architecture Group<br>Redwood Shores, CA | 650.506.9847 </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><BR>
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