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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sorry,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I was confusing Custom XML parts, but with a bit of work, the
example could probably be used!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Gareth<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Horton, Gareth
[mailto:horton@datawatch.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 01 July 2009 16:41<br>
<b>To:</b> Innovimax SARL; Doug Mahugh<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Alex Brown; Rex Jaeschke; SC 34 WG4<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [SPAM] RE: [SPAM] Re: Question regarding DR 09-0216<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Mohamed,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>We are using Custom XML – the whole thing is in the
bailiwick of the implementer.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>You may have an Innovimax HyperWordProcessingML schema that
you have sweated over, which you use as the basis for a custom XML fragment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>In this HyperWordProcessingML schema, you have a construct
and element name called paragraph, but it is nothing like a paragraph in OOXML.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>For reasons known only to Innovimax, if the text in this
paragraph does not start with the string “Mohamed agrees” then it is invalid against
the schema.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Your app that consumes OOXML packages validates the custom
XML and puts the packages that do not contain a paragraph beginning with
“Mohamed agrees” into a specific folder, so they can be reviewed by Mohamed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>A slightly silly example, but hopefully helpful.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Gareth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Innovimax SARL [mailto:innovimax@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 01 July 2009 16:13<br>
<b>To:</b> Doug Mahugh<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Alex Brown; Rex Jaeschke; SC 34 WG4<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [SPAM] Re: Question regarding DR 09-0216<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Well I'm puzzled by this
assertion<br>
""hey could make a change to a document that renders it invalid, by
simply deleting a paragraph for example. """<br>
<br>
I'm surprised : how a paragraph could be in custom Markup ?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Doug Mahugh <<a
href="mailto:Doug.Mahugh@microsoft.com">Doug.Mahugh@microsoft.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Alex,<br>
<br>
In the approach we've used for implementing this particular feature,
"can" is indeed correct. The rationale behind that flexibility
is that the user may be unaware that the custom XML markup exists, and they
could make a change to a document that renders it invalid, by simply deleting a
paragraph for example. In that case, the user may not know what needs to
be done to make their change in a schema-valid way, so they have no ability to
correct the error if schema validation against the custom schema were required.
So we allow them to save the document anyway, preserving the user's
intended content even if it is no longer consistent with the custom schema.<br>
<br>
I think it's worth making a distinction between the requirements of dedicated
XML editors (whose primary role is help users create instances of specific
schemas), and word-processing applications (whose primary role is helping users
create documents with specific content, structure and layout). The customXML
element in IS29500 is a lightweight optional mechanism for adding custom
semantics to word-processing documents, and the attachedSchema itself is
optional.<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
- Doug</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Alex Brown [mailto:<a href="mailto:alexb@griffinbrown.co.uk">alexb@griffinbrown.co.uk</a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:06 AM<br>
To: Innovimax SARL; Rex Jaeschke<br>
Cc: SC 34 WG4<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Subject: RE: Question regarding DR 09-0216<br>
<br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
I too would like to see the questions answered.<br>
<br>
On Mohamed's point, ISO wording (not RFC) wording is in force, so
"can" is fine. But do we really mean "can". What if the
schema makes modifications to the instance; in that case wouldn't different XML
be implied depending on whether or not validation took place?<br>
<br>
- Alex.<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Innovimax SARL [mailto:<a href="mailto:innovimax@gmail.com">innovimax@gmail.com</a>]<br>
> Sent: 30 June 2009 07:42<br>
> To: Rex Jaeschke<br>
> Cc: SC 34 WG4<br>
> Subject: Re: Question regarding DR 09-0216<br>
><br>
> Rex,<br>
><br>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but the objection Murata and I did are not<br>
> incorporated.<br>
><br>
> (I'm just restating this because Shawn answer disturbed me a bit...)<br>
><br>
> Mohamed<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Rex Jaeschke<<a
href="mailto:rex@rexjaeschke.com">rex@rexjaeschke.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> > I show email traffic (see below) based on my proposed response, but<br>
> no<br>
> > record of agreement on the final words after that. Did I miss<br>
> something, or<br>
> > do we still need final words?<br>
> ><br>
> > Rex<br>
> ><br>
> > 1. DR 09-0216 — WML: Custom XML and Smart Tags<br>
> ><br>
> > Status: Closed; will be incorporated in COR1<br>
> ><br>
> > Subject: WML: Custom XML and Smart Tags<br>
> ><br>
> > Qualifier: Request for clarification<br>
> ><br>
> > Submitter: Mr. Francis Cave (BSI)<br>
> ><br>
> > Contact Information: <a href="mailto:francis@franciscave.com">francis@franciscave.com</a><br>
> ><br>
> > Submitter’s Defect Number: 08-00131<br>
> ><br>
> > Supporting Document(s): none<br>
> ><br>
> > Date Circulated by Secretariat: 2009-05-22<br>
> ><br>
> > Deadline for Response from Editor: 2009-07-22<br>
> ><br>
> > IS 29500 Reference(s): Part 1: §17.5.1, “Custom XML and Smart Tags”,<br>
> p. 529<br>
> ><br>
> > Related DR(s): none<br>
> ><br>
> > Nature of the Defect:<br>
> ><br>
> > The second para on p. 529 following the bullets has: "The
distinction<br>
> > between custom XML markup and smart tags is that custom XML markup is<br>
> based<br>
> > on a specified schema."<br>
> ><br>
> > It is not clear how "a specified schema" is specified in
this<br>
> context. Can<br>
> > there only be one specified schema per document?<br>
> ><br>
> > Solution Proposed by the Submitter:<br>
> ><br>
> > Point to normative text describing how one or more schemas are<br>
> specified, or<br>
> > - if this does not exist - provide new text.<br>
> ><br>
> > Schema Change(s) Needed:<br>
> ><br>
> > Editor’s Response:<br>
> ><br>
> > The exact changes are as follows:<br>
> ><br>
> > Part 1: §17.5, “Custom XML and Smart Tags”, p. 529<br>
> ><br>
> > The distinction between custom XML markup and smart tags is that<br>
> custom XML<br>
> > markup is based on a specified schema, which shall be specified using<br>
> the<br>
> > attachedSchema element (§17.15.1.5). As a result, the custom XML<br>
> elements<br>
> > can be validated against the schema. Also, as shown below, custom XML<br>
> markup<br>
> > can be used at the block-level as well as on the inline (run) level.<br>
> ><br>
> > 2009-06-11 Makoto Murata:<br>
> ><br>
> >> which shall be specified using the attachedSchema element<br>
> ><br>
> > Is this a recommendation or a requirement? In other words, is
the<br>
> > attachedSchema element authoritative?<br>
> ><br>
> > 2009-06-11 Mohamed Zergaoui:<br>
> ><br>
> > I was also wondering why it is used "CAN" which is not RFC
compliant.<br>
> ><br>
> > I would also go for a "MAY" ("XML elements MAY be
validated") and<br>
> would also<br>
> > add ("but MUST be valid with respect to the
attachedSchema").<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Innovimax SARL<br>
> Consulting, Training & XML Development<br>
> 9, impasse des Orteaux<br>
> 75020 Paris<br>
> Tel : +33 9 52 475787<br>
> Fax : +33 1 4356 1746<br>
> <a href="http://www.innovimax.fr" target="_blank">http://www.innovimax.fr</a><br>
> RCS Paris 488.018.631<br>
> SARL au capital de 10.000 €<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
-- <br>
Innovimax SARL<br>
Consulting, Training & XML Development<br>
9, impasse des Orteaux<br>
75020 Paris<br>
Tel : +33 9 52 475787<br>
Fax : +33 1 4356 1746<br>
<a href="http://www.innovimax.fr">http://www.innovimax.fr</a><br>
RCS Paris 488.018.631<br>
SARL au capital de 10.000 €<o:p></o:p></p>
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