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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><HastyClarification><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’m NOT advocating that we
add a new attribute ‘relyOnOuputFormat’. Making use of an existing
feature (in Part 3?) that would achieve the same end would be my preference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'></HastyClarification><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Francis Cave
[mailto:francis@franciscave.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 21 March 2010 15:41<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Shawn Villaron'; 'Jesper Lund Stocholm'; 'SC 34 WG4'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: DR 09-0312 - WML: RelyOnVML<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Exactly. If we accept the
principle of enshrining formal names in attribute type names, you’d have
to add ‘relyOnXXX’ for every conceivable output format XXX for
which a similar feature needed to be added. Can you explain why a special
attribute is needed for VML that is not needed for other formats (e.g. EPSF,
SVG,…)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>If you had an attribute
‘relyOnOutputFormat’, taking a string value to indicate the format,
or possibly even a controlled value, that would be more generic and flexible,
surely.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>But maybe I’m
misunderstanding something here…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Shawn Villaron
[mailto:shawnv@microsoft.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 21 March 2010 15:30<br>
<b>To:</b> francis@franciscave.com; 'Jesper Lund Stocholm'; 'SC 34 WG4'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: DR 09-0312 - WML: RelyOnVML<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Can you help me
understand what special status we’re making for VML in part 1? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>This element is like
saying “relyOnCSS” … <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Francis Cave [mailto:francis@franciscave.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shawn Villaron; 'Jesper Lund Stocholm'; 'SC 34 WG4'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: DR 09-0312 - WML: RelyOnVML<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>It does seem odd to me to accord
VML a special status in Part 1, by having an attribute that specifically refers
to it. On the other hand, it is entirely reasonable that applications that
support OOXML Strict should be able to store information in a document that
relates to specific formats other than OOXML Strict in which a document can be saved.
It would be more logical to use a more generic way of storing such information.
Isn’t this what MCE is for?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>So, I would agree that the
existing feature needs to be available in OOXML Transitional for legacy
reasons, but I feel that a more generic alternative is needed for Strict. To my
mind, finding a way of doing this that uses what we already have in Parts 1 and
3 would be preferable to adding new features.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Shawn Villaron
[mailto:shawnv@microsoft.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 19 March 2010 14:15<br>
<b>To:</b> Jesper Lund Stocholm; SC 34 WG4<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: DR 09-0312 - WML: RelyOnVML<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>We can remove it, but
I would like to clarify a few things.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>I don’t think we can really tell
implementers that they can’t create a publishing output using a
technology not specified in 29500. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Other companies have built products on top of
VML before ( e.g. Google Maps ) so we shouldn’t draw too many conclusions
about VML’s utility ( or lack thereof )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span
lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>The existence of the relyOnVML element
doesn’t create a dependency on Part 4. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>So on the grounds
that we should never string the letters V, M and L together, in that order, can
we remove the tag from the strict. It does need to remain in transitional
for compatibility reasons.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Jesper Lund Stocholm
[mailto:jesper.stocholm@ciber.dk] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shawn Villaron; SC 34 WG4<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: DR 09-0312 - WML: RelyOnVML<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DA style='color:#1F497D'>Good morning all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DA style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>We are aware of the
details you provide below. Our concern is that first of all, the
attribute “sticks out” – even though it doesn’t mean
that VML can be used within OOXML<S>. But we also feel that the attribute
is redundant in OOXML<S>. VML cannot be used within OOXML<S> so
being able to specify that the content should be “Saved to web”
using VML – when VML cannot be used in OOXML<S> seems wrong.
Further VML is a technology that is (browser-wise) only implemented in
Microsoft Internet Explorer so RelyOnVml is a reference to a technology that
only exists in a Microsoft product. And finally the existence of RelyOnVml in Part
1 makes a dependency to Part 4, since an application encountering this
attribute with a value of “true” in a strict document will need to
implement functionality from Part 4 to honor the original user’s intent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>So yes, we still wish
to have the attribute removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>:o)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jesper Lund Stocholm<br>
</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#363434'>c</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:purple'>i</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#363434'>ber</span></b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>
Danmark A/S</span><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Shawn Villaron
[mailto:shawnv@microsoft.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 18. marts 2010 23:10<br>
<b>To:</b> 'SC 34 WG4'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> DR 09-0312 - WML: RelyOnVML<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DA><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>This is in regards to the DK defect
report. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I believe that there may be a
misunderstanding regarding the meaning of this element as it doesn’t
relate to the BRM resolution regarding the limiting of VML to the Transitional
conformance class.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Many applications have the ability to
generate published versions of their documents that are optimized for viewing
on the web. Microsoft Word has this ability, and in its web publish
format, it has the ability to use VML as a graphics format. This ability
is exposed to end users. To keep track of end user preferences, Microsoft
Word would write out the end user preference into the binary and XML versions
of the document so that future publishing would use the previous setting.
And since the migration to Open XML was about preserving data found in those
binary and XML files, this end user preference was included in the standard and
is represented by the relyOnVML element.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>To be 100% clear, this element has <b>absolutely
no impact</b> on whether or not VML is allowed to be used in the
WordprocessingML document. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>In light of this, do we still believe it
should be removed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>shawn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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