<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I think Murata-san’s notion of a “configuration” as a required input is a good way to think about this. One can build an MCE preprocessor from a full definition of functionality in Part 3. Operating it requires
seeding it with some input parameters, which includes a set of understood namespaces. This seems a non-issue to me, but am I not seeing something?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Francis Cave [mailto:francis@franciscave.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 25, 2012 4:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'SC34'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> FW: MCE blog post by Florian Reuter<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Apologies, I managed to exclude the WG 4 mailing list from this bit of the thread. Mea culpa!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Francis Cave [<a href="mailto:francis@franciscave.com">mailto:francis@franciscave.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 September 2012 00:15<br>
<b>To:</b> 'John Haug'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Chris Rae'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: MCE blog post by Florian Reuter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Hi John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Yes, I suppose I was thinking about a generalized MCE processor, since that is what I understand that Murata-san has been talking about.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">But I do understand what you’re driving at. This means that an MCE processor cannot be built solely be reading Part 3. The MCE application may define additional features – such as those that trigger
suspension and resumption of MCE processing – which influence how the MCE processor is built.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">What worries me about that is that it means that MCE is only partially defined by Part 3, and it seems to me that, if we accept that unspecified features of MCE can be defined elsewhere, the value
of Part 3 is questionable, because it might be better just to define MCE in its entirety for each application. Part 3 could perhaps be seen as a reference model for constructing MCE applications, or at best providing the definition of a minimum subset of the
functionality of MCE applications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Can we do better than that? Can we restrict what features of an MCE application are defined elsewhere? Or was it always the intention that Part 3 should only define MCE fundamentals and not the whole
feature set?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> John Haug [<a href="mailto:johnhaug@exchange.microsoft.com">mailto:johnhaug@exchange.microsoft.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 25 September 2012 23:28<br>
<b>To:</b> Francis Cave (<a href="mailto:francis@franciscave.com">francis@franciscave.com</a>)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Chris Rae<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: MCE blog post by Florian Reuter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Francis –<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I’m not sure about the foo:bar question. I can think of one possible case that might be useful but don’t know what the intention of the authors was. That will require a little investigating. In general, of
course, removing anything is a tricky thing to be certain of, and may not be a great idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">As for the initialization question, Florian’s may be one implementation. A simpler one might be simply to know which markup languages the application supports and which of those support MCE. In that case, you
can easily know where MCE should be enabled. I think all thinking about MCE processing has been in the context of an application oriented around some markup language, which scopes the problem well to that limited set of languages the application understands.
Your question sounds more geared toward how a generalized MCE preprocessor would need to work. I don’t think that is as well defined right now. My understanding is that a markup specification defines within itself whether it supports MCE. An application
understanding that markup spec should then know enough about that markup spec to know whether MCE is valid within it. There may be no such thing as a generalized MCE preprocessor unrelated to an application since the MCE processor needs a configuration as
one of its inputs. Or, a degenerate MCE processor might be one with a null configuration, where all namespaces other than MCE are not understood – not overly useful. :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Francis Cave [<a href="mailto:francis@franciscave.com">mailto:francis@franciscave.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Haug<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: MCE blog post by Florian Reuter<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">A very useful contribution.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">There’s no mention in Florian’s blog posting of anything resembling <foo:bar/> in ACBs, as in Murata-san’s example. Can we prohibit this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Florian’s explanation of how specified elements can cause MCE processing to be suspended or resumed is interesting and clear, but seems to go well beyond what is specified in the standard, by my
reading. Florian suggests that the MCE processor can, as part of its initialisation, be provided with a list of elements inside which MCE processing is suspended and another list of elements inside which MCE is resumed. Where does the MCE processor find such
lists? There is certainly no mechanism in the standard for specifying such lists, which means that implementations would not be interoperable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D">Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> John Haug [<a href="mailto:johnhaug@exchange.microsoft.com">mailto:johnhaug@exchange.microsoft.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 25 September 2012 19:54<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:e-SC34-WG4@ecma-international.org">e-SC34-WG4@ecma-international.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> MCE blog post by Florian Reuter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Trying again as this didn’t seem to go through this weekend…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">FYI, Florian wrote a blog post summarizing MCE that is on the OpenXMLDeveloper.org site.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://openxmldeveloper.org/blog/b/openxmldeveloper/archive/2012/09/21/markup-compatibility-and-extensibility.aspx">http://openxmldeveloper.org/blog/b/openxmldeveloper/archive/2012/09/21/markup-compatibility-and-extensibility.aspx</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>