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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Chris<br>
<br>
Yes, the new draft and your responses cover all the points that I
raised, so that's good. I could continue to quibble about the fact
that the relationship between @color and @themeColor is
essentially the same wherever these two attributes appear, but
isn't consistently specified in the same way. Thus in 17.3.2.40
the relationship is spelt out in the descriptions of both @color
and @themeColor, but in other instances it is only spelt out in
the description of @color, and this could lead some implementers
to wonder whether there is some subtle distinction that they are
missing. However, I concede that this is a minor quibble, and I
think I live with this minor editorial inconsistency.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Francis<br>
<br>
<br>
On 25/08/2014 22:52, Chris Rae wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks for
taking a thorough look at this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I think you’re
right about the extra themeShade items – my way of finding
the differences was to dig through our implementer notes
looking for places where we called out different behavior –
however, we seem to have missed those ones. I’ve added them
to the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">On @color...
per each instance you mention:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">17.2.1: my solution (which I haven’t
shared yet) doesn’t involve the style hierarchy at all, so I
think this one is fine.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">17.3.4: This was fixed in the yellow
bucket by applying a default of “auto” to the CT. However,
looking at the other ones you brought up, this doesn’t seem
to be the way they were handled typically in prose before.
It would appear the default was described there… so I’ve
moved this one into the blue bucket and resolved it this way
instead. It does beg the question of whether there are other
instances where behavior that could be captured in schema is
documented in prose, but I don’t want to try and resolve
that in this DR. The style hierarchy aspects, especially,
make it non-trivial.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">17.3.5: This attribute isn’t mentioned
in the yellow bucket, but it is optional with no default.
However, behaviour is actually covered in the prose (“If
this attribute is omitted, then its value shall be assumed
to be auto”).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">17.6.2, 17.6.7, 17.6.15, 17.6.21: The
attribute isn’t mentioned in the yellow bucket, but I agree
that it’s optional with no behavior supplied. I’ve added
these to the proposed blue ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">I’ve gone through the rest of the
document and I believe you’ve captured all the instances<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">On @themeColor:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">17.3.5: I think we’re actually good
with the current wording. The item was incorrect because of
an “element” / ”attribute” switch.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">17.3.2.40, 17.3.4, 17.6.2, 17.6.7,
17.6.15, 17.6.21: In these instances, @themeColor does state
that it’s only used as an override for @color. We formerly
didn’t specify what the default for @color was, but I think
this has been fixed by the additive changes made above to
the blue bucketed items. So I don't think we need any
further changes here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">17.2.1: This also fell back onto the
@color setting, but its behaviour wasn’t described when
@color was missing. So I’ve added that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">17.3.5: This fell back onto the @color
setting, but its behaviour was indeed already described in
the standard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I’ve attached
an updated “blue ones”. I also modified the yellow ones, but
only to remove the default for “color” in CT_Border, so
probably no need to attach the full text.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Francis Cave
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:francis@franciscave.com">mailto:francis@franciscave.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 19 August 2014 01:56<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Rae; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:e-SC34-WG4@ecma-international.org">e-SC34-WG4@ecma-international.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: DR 13:0013: Proposed solution to "the
blue ones"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">Hi Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">This looks good.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">I've done a trawl for
@themeShade in Part 1, and I think that there are other
occurrences needing the same treatment in 17.6.2 bottom
(Bottom Border), 17.6.7 left (Left Border), 17.6.15 right
(Right Border), 17.6.21 top (Top Border) and 17.15.2.5 color
(Frameset Splitter Color).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">I note that you have
addressed @color in the case of 17.3.2.40 u (Underline), and
I wonder whether the treatment of @color in other cases
should be similar. There is one instance of @color is in the
green bucket: 17.2.1 background (Document Background). Other
instances of @color are in the yellow bucket: 17.3.4,
17.3.5, 17.6.2, 17.6.7, 17.6.15 and 17.6.21 . There's
another instance of @color in 17.3.5 that we may have
overlooked.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">I'm also now
wondering whether @themeColor is being correctly specified
in all instances. We already have a proposed correction of
@themeColor that occurs in 17.3.5 (DR 14-0002 - purple
bucket), in which we now have:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">If this <s>
<span style="color:red">element</span></s><span
style="color:red"> </span><u><span style="color:#4472C4">attribute</span></u><span
style="color:#4472C4">
</span>is omitted, then no theme color is applied, and the
color attribute shall be used to determine the shading
pattern color.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">Would this same
wording be appropriate to add in other instances of
@themeColor, i.e. 17.2.1, 17.3.2.40, 17.3.4, 17.3.5, 17.6.2,
17.6.7, 17.6.15 and 17.6.21?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">It might be worth
checking all uses of @color and @themeColor for consistency.
Maybe we could discuss this briefly on Thursday’s call.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">Francis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Chris Rae [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Chris.Rae@microsoft.com">mailto:Chris.Rae@microsoft.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: 18 August 2014 19:26<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:e-SC34-WG4@ecma-international.org">e-SC34-WG4@ecma-international.org</a><br>
Subject: DR 13:0013: Proposed solution to "the blue ones"</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">Attached are my
proposed changes for the "blue" DR 13-0013 (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx/Public"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx/Public</span></a>
Documents/2013/DR-13-0013.docx) changes. These are ones for
which prose needed to be added to the standard to cover
behavior (i.e. this could not be represented in schema).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">I've attached my
changes - as part of the work I scanned Office's implementer
notes and found one more example of the themeShade/themeTint
behavior that many of these items represent. I've made a
comment on that particular change.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">Also attached is a
test document I used to verify the behavior of the optional
column width settings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">At this point, the
only bucket I have left is the green ones. Although they're
the ones marked as "need individual investigation" and there
are 24 of them, so I might not make amazingly fast progress.
I'm still anticipating being done by Kyoto, as promised.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-GB">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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