The future of "Transitional": Japanese concern

[Innovimax SARL]

Ok sorry, I didn't notice that *MS* in "MS Office" was meaning "Murata San"

My apologies

Mohamed

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:42 AM, Shawn Villaron <shawnv at microsoft.com> wrote:
> I took Murata-san's point about MS Office in the general sense of implementers.  But perhaps that's just me ...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Innovimax SARL [mailto:innovimax at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:32 PM
> To: MURATA Makoto (FAMILY Given)
> Cc: SC 34 WG4
> Subject: Re: The future of "Transitional": Japanese concern
>
> Murata san,
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:14 AM, MURATA Makoto (FAMILY Given) <eb2m-mrt at asahi-net.or.jp> wrote:
>> Francis,
>>
>> (Again wearing my Japanese hat)
>>
>>> The agreed UK position is that the purpose of the Transitional
>>>conformance class and features, as specified in Part 4, is to provide
>>>faithful representation of legacy documents.
>>
>> It appears that your understanding of "legacy documents" appears to be
>> different from ours.  In our understading, document that have been or
>> will be created, modified, or viewed  by legacy software are legacy
>> documents.  After all, isn't it very difficult to create strict
>> documents using existing MS Office in the future?
>
> Probably, but again, the goal of this WG is not to talk about MS Office implementations (especially the future one) , is it ?
>
>>
>>>If the old versions of Microsoft Office and other systems that were
>>>used to produce these legacy documents were unable to format text in
>>>all languages correctly (which is hardly surprising, by the way), Part
>>>4 should enable us to represent those documents faithfully INCLUDING
>>>all typographic lacunae. In other words, if a typographic feature was
>>>missing and could not be expressed in a legacy document, it would be
>>>wrong to try to rewrite history by enhancing Part 4 and thereby
>>>"correcting" the presentation of old documents.
>>
>> An important omission in MS Word is not  inability to format documents
>> correctly but rather inability to recognize page layout specified in
>> terms of KIHONHANMEN (see 2.2.4
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/NOTE-jlreq-20090604/#en-subheading1_1_4
>> of the requirement document) rather than margins.  I guess that it is
>> possible to create OOXML extensions so that documents can contain
>> specifications in terms of KIHONHAMEN *as well as* margins.  Legacy
>> software is expected to handle such documents and produce good layout
>> using margin information, while new applications can further provide
>> better user interfaces in terms of KIHONHANMEN.
>
> I'm afraid you're talking about the behaviour of an implementation there.
> The second point is that you're talking about high level typography :
> I never understood that Word was about high quality typography although I understand SVG, XSL-FO and CSS are.
>
> My understanding is that KIHONHAMEN typography characteristics are not
> *generally* captured today (as ARABIC typography in most of the case).
> I said *generally* in the sense of "telling the software that you are in KIHONHAMEN mode"
> On the other hand, MS Word (since we are again talking about an
> implementation) has never been about capturing general typography information, but largely more about capturing local information (see how tables are treated line by line in Word) ; Here again, local information that have been set by user in "legacy" document (that will have to be defined in Paris) -- and not legacy implementations -- needs to be captured in ISO 29500 T (if it is not already in ECMA 376).
>
> Mohamed
>
>
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> Innovimax SARL
> Consulting, Training & XML Development
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>



-- 
Innovimax SARL
Consulting, Training & XML Development
9, impasse des Orteaux
75020 Paris
Tel : +33 9 52 475787
Fax : +33 1 4356 1746
http://www.innovimax.fr
RCS Paris 488.018.631
SARL au capital de 10.000 €